On Episode 12, I am joined by two lovely ladies, Gracyn and Tracy, in the home studio to hash out why its so hard for guys and girls to just be climbing buds. Gracyn thinks every guy wants her, I cop to being in love with every climbing partner I’ve ever had- male or female, and Tracy just looks on in horror. Its ladies night at the Enormocast, and the feeling is oh so right.
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I just tear off my shirt so the babes can see my rad outty belly button…
Does it snag when you try to rip it off?
Not yet.
It does slow me down when a take a nasty slide down a slab though.
Love the show!
Ouch!
You should consider rebroadcasting this on spotify!
Is it not there? Hmmm…
Hi Kalous. Another great issue, but you really do need to get your simians sorted out. Bonobos are not baboons; they are a type of chimp – hence apes. [They’re also known for their – ahem – ‘party style’ – so maybe closer to climbers than we think.] Baboons are of course monkeys – they have a tail – and close-up, I gather, can be pretty vicious. In this respect the ‘Great Bristol Balloon Festival’ can be variously great fun – or unexpectedly traumatising – depending on your spelling.
This is awesome but I have no recollection of what you are talking about!!
Hah! I often have no recollection of what I’m talking about either – but in this instance it cropped up at about 26:30 with you and the near-groundfall spraylord. Confusingly, you’d earlier introduced the ‘reptile brain’ concept – but mine will explode if we go down that particular rabbit hole!
The good ‘ol beta-and-switch™!
Ha.
This is why I ice climb. We all keep our shirts on.
guy girl thing…
first of, interesting topic and nice episode.
Like most of the people commenting here I don’t think that this is a climbing issue, but more generel “repitle brain” issue.
I agree with Chris that for any guy any age there will always be this initial “ahh, what if…” judgement regardless of his or her domestic status, but that is not the same as actually acting on it.
having said that, While listening to this episode I thought of the initial phase of meeting girls, and realised that even if I am sure there is nothing romantic going on and I don’t want there to be, I still feel kind of shot down when the boyfriend statement shows it ugly head. I don’t know if its the “what if”, something subconcsious, the asumption that single girls are more “fun”. I don’t know I just observed this behaviour in myself.
On the other hand I also often feel like “pheew… good now thats off the table” and we can focus on climbing or whatever we are doing.
As for climbing with girls. Its very inspiring to me, I climb like a girl (or at least I wish I did) I find that generelly women are more elegant on the wall than guys, moving fluently and efficiently. I don’t know its hard to describe. I usually climb with a large group of people and usually at least one is a girl no issue (from my point of view)
As for mixing climbing and dating, tried it once. not simultaneously though, I really think that people should keep apples and banannas apart. at least save the flirting for the campfire.
And totally agree with Steph that guys generelly can take a straight “NO. hands off dude”, much better that indirect signals and signs
HUGS from Denmark, Ulrik
WOW- Denmark. Kalous you’re like Pitbull now- so international.
ja, det er sandt!!
Although sometimes misguided, I think that the tug on the figure eight, the bravado, and the outward manifestation of sexual tension exhibited by climbing men toward their female partners should be taken as a compliment. Sexual attraction is pretty natural regardless of the setting and unwanted attention in that department can be as easily diffused as it can be kindled.
Gracyn: The next time those boys are getting too close, you say: “Hey, bro-dawg, stop hitting on me. I came here to climb and I don’t want to make out with you.” Guys respond well to directness and most of them don’t hold on to things or feel the need to dissect your comment with you for the next half hour like a girl might try to do.
You can make it lighthearted to save their ego. You can get your point across, be classy, be cool, and still have a partner at the end of the day. They might even feel a release from the pressure of doing what they think they are supposed to be doing when all they really want to do is climb just like you.
Guys: Please do not stop taking your shirts off.
LOVED this episode! Been there and back again. I’ve been in love with climbing since I was 19- over 13 years now. I was so passionate about climbing, I knew that I could never date a non-climber- someone who couldn’t understand something so important to me. But like Gracyn put it so eloquently, just because I wanted to date a climber, didn’t mean I wanted to date EVERY climber. Though I can’t recall any dudes trying to initiate a post-toprope make out sess at the cliff, I had my share of mixed-signals encounters. My favorite were the guys who assumed that you would repay them for leading you up climbs by sleeping with them. When I made it clear that wasn’t going to happen, I was often left looking for a new climbing partner. So alas, “leading a guy on” and “desperation for a climbing partner” often become conflated. C’est la vie. I bought my own rack, learned to lead on gear and put up my own damn climbs.
When I meet my husband, part of the initial attraction was that he was into climbing and pretty mellow about the whole “climbing date” thing. If he was thinking it, he didn’t let on in anyway or try to force the issue. I felt he was genuinely interested in climbing with me and would do so regardless of our relationship. He grew to become my favorite climbing partner. And since he works as a climbing guide, I’d totally epic with him 🙂
These days, I feel pretty lucky that the climbing community here at the Gunks has a lot of dedicated women climbers and on any given weekend, I’ll probably be climbing with one of them. So the awkward guy-girl climbing relationship is largely a non-issue for me. Any guys I do climb with generally know my husband as he is a fixture at the cliff, so its like having the ‘boyfriend-out’ that Tracy & Gracyn talked about. Bonus of a climber-husband- I get gear for my birthdays 😉
Chris, I think you are very right though, that a lot of the issues Gracyn is experiencing have to do with the age of the “gentlemen” she is currently climbing with. My own experience has born this to be true. The one caveat I would offer is that I think in the climbing community, there is a higher-than-normal percentage of dudes with “Peter Pan” syndrome, so not all guys will grow up/grow out of this phase. Of course, I’ve never dated outside of the climbing community, so maybe this is just as true for the non-climbing community.
Anyhow, just another .02 cents from another climber chick…
That was worth more than .02 cents for sure. Hell, you should be on the show. Thanks for the coffee order btw.
No worries. Love the show, happy to help out. Hell, I even swilled two PBRs last Saturday night for solidarity. I’d love to be on the show, but I think if you’re trying to get *more* listeners, my lame pirate jokes will send loyal listeners running & screaming over to the Dirtbag Diaries. 🙁
You keep talking about these pirate jokes! Let’s hear what you got. I think they’d be a great hook.
A pirate ship is sailing on the high seas when the lookout in the crow’s nest spots another ship. He yells down, “Captain, there’s an enemy ship on the horizon!”
The crew looks to the captain, who says “Crew, bring me my red shirt, so if I am wounded in battle, my crew won’t see the blood and continue to fight on.”
A few minutes later, the pirate in the crow’s nest yells down, “Captain, TEN enemy ships on the horizon!”
The crew looks to the captain who swallows hard and says “Crew, bring me my brown pants!”
Okay, here’s an original…ready?…what does a Jewish pirate say when he hears a corny pirate joke?
Ahoy vey!
Hmmmmm, like a fine wine on the tongue, no?
BJ totally stalked Tracy. He’s way cooler than the Fonz though. Does a girl ever just ‘hang out’ with Arthur Herbert Fonzarelli?
Oh, Greg, you’re making us seem really old just referencing the Fonz. AAAAAAAAAAA!
Love Gracyn ‘s honesty and sense of humor.
Most of my best partners are women.
Jitka from The Czech Republic was awesome and gave me so much crap. We often shared a tent and she would pull some crazy stunts. Once, after a bomb fire session with a bunch of guys, she said really loudly: “no funny business Greg.”…and, in the morning pretended that I was trying to make out with her. She was a real card!!!
Melanie was a badass; but, shy on the onsite. We did have some uncomfortable moments; but, we worked through them. Sadly, she’s not longer with us.
Larrisa follows anything I lead and humble me by choosing lines that were graded easy; but, she new I would struggle on for one reason or the other.
I’ve shared a rope and the dance floor with Tracy too! 🙂 I have to admit: even if a women is in a great committed relationship, the tiny reptile brain is still there. I always prefer climbing with a woman. They smell better, have less competitive ego driven bravado and are pleasing to the eye.
Climbing partnerships take you beyond the normal bonding in a romantic relationship. Be it a guy or a girl partner, you will bond in very deep and incredible ways.
My advice for Gracyn is to focus on good friendships regardless of the gender or endeavour . A good romance will blossom without effort.
Awesome advice and a great tribute to your lady partners including the one you lost. I, too, end up climbing and travelling with the ladies a lot. Something in their personalities that calms me down a little. Thanks for the great comments. Tracy’s a hell of a catch for BJ!
Being a young female like Gracyn I tend to encounter more people assuming I’m a complete idiot and know nothing about the sport. This weekend I actually was talked to like a 3 year-old, some guy wanted to show me a “special way to knot webbing” I was astounded and I said you call that daisy chaining and his response was it just looks like you didnt know that. I also constantly hear “you climb hard for a girl” and “if that tiny girl can climb that why can’t you” from one bro to another. Why can’t it be I just climb hard. Why does the gender comment have to been thrown in there? I was just venting my frustration about this topic the other day and this podcast came at the perfect time!
A,
Lay it on me, the enormocast is here to listen to you. While Gracyn had some pretty over the top incidences, I knew she was not alone under the oppressive weight of male condescension. Just keep kicking ass and the will have to reckon with you eye to eye eventually. You think anybody pulls that shit on Beth Rodden? Thanks for listening.
CK
I was once in the habit of saying, “I feel like a girl today.” And, “I climbed like a girl today.” After being embarrassed by some amazing female climbers…i stopped. Luckily, there is room for change and growth in this life.
I do the grigri thang too. 🙁 hit me up , i’m always down for the pass, not many are!
Word in the shirtless gym crowd is that the way Gracyn unties her figure 8’s is practically begging for a surprise make out sesh. If she saw the way I do the Yosemite finish on my figure 8 she’d be the one going for an ambush first base. But seriously, guy’s creepin on the few females found at a climbing area is extremely sad. On the other hand Girls using desperate guys, with out any intent of a relationship is also very sad to see. However the worse offenders in my opinion are the boyfriends who bring their reluctant non-climbing girl friends climbing, and the girls so clearly don’t like climbing, are scared stiff, and hate it. But the boyfriend forces the girl to climb shouting out things like “Babe, Babe you can do it Babe just grab the giant holds babe. just try Babe, you’re not trying.” Not the best soundtrack to climb to…
I’ve seen many a relationship laid to waste at the crags. G may be overreacting a bit, but some version of most of her complaints are pretty rampant. Still, any given bar or club on a Friday night is way more ridiculous and often more misogynistic than what climbers deal with. It’s not like anybody is dropping a roofie in their partner’s nalgene. or has that happened? But I’m sure plenty of wall chicks have felt pretty trapped in a double ledge with that grueler that seemed so nice back in camp 4. Alas. People like to touch each other, what can I say?
So the version with the audio distortion downloaded, which I realized when I tried to listen. Found the comments above and deleted Episode 12 assuming iTunes would re-load it (hopefully the re-mixed version) next time I hooked up to the internet. Alas, now it seems iTunes won’t download 12. Maybe it thinks I don’t want 12? Anyone among Chris’s hordes of loyal fans know what I should do to get my damn computer to download Episode 12 again?
Right click the enormocast in your itunes podcast list, or whatever you mac people do for that (I know, I’m super uncool on my shitty PC), and hit “show all available episodes”. This should reload the whole list and then you can hit “get” again. Viola, or Voila, or whatever the French say when they want you to be impressed with their tricks.
Got it. Thanks Chris.
I tried listening to the new podcast off my phone and it had some kind of weird, warped, audio distortion. Is anyone else having this happen?
Gonna try a remix and reload. Too much compression. I mixed it to monitor speakers, which sounds okay, but on phones it sounds too squashed. My set up for three mics is a bit primitive still.
I listen to all of your episodes exclusively on my phone. No issues here!
It’s good to hear. I just ordered a digital input with more channels so editing should get easier and the production better. Thanks for listening.
My phone (droid) still had troubles playing it when I downloaded it today. The first few minutes worked fine but when it got to the meat of the show (around 5:20) it was silent. I was able to listen to it on my computer though thankfully!
That one is strange. Not sure what’s happening there. Others getting this problem?
dude, that’s all that was in my head! It was just going to be a climbing trip, I swear!
Don’t contradict me! Okay, so maybe it’s just me that thinks that way. You are a prince among men, BJ.