On Episode 245, James Lucas and I reconvene to catch up on his topsy-turvy life. This installment, his 4th, finds James on the upswing from a low point after losing his job, his girlfriend, his stoke, and purpose. James talks about losing himself in dance, home remedies for panic attacks, therapy, and general depression. But by the end, he’s back on the upswing and we discuss some dubious dating advice administered by one Madeleine Sorkin. James is probably the most forthcoming and honest guest to ever grace the Enormocast, and its always a joyride when he hits the mic!
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Oh man, I so identify with the campfire Crooner statement! Every time I’m at a fire with people I don’t know I always have an anxiety that someone will pull out a guitar or break into song. I freaking hate it. I also went to art school and every time I would walk by a gaggle of theater students it was the same anxiety about them performing too close in proximity.
I loved hearing James is doing better, and I am a huge fan of the show.
I feel like you missed an opportunity in the interview when he was describing his depression and his friendship with the woman who lost her friend in a car crash. You jumped in with your own experience of having a broken heart, and then getting, “snapped out of it,” with the news of another trauma. ( love to hear more)
I think depressed people know that there is an enormous amount of suffering worse than what they are going through… they even hate themselves for it. Depression is not something one can snap out of when one becomes aware of another’s worse circumstances. In fact, a broken heart is often not about the break-up, but a triggering event that reminds us of attachment failures of the past, traumatic experiences that are unresolved, and deep feelings of failure/rejection, and loss.
It is a very different experience of grief and morning. People often do not know what to say, as you addressed in your interview. It may be helpful not to say anything. I wish you could have made a little more room for him to talk about his experience. Suicidal ideation is more common than most people want to admit. It is nothing to be afraid of, or avoid.
It is refreshing and important that people like James share that their lives are not perfect and that life can throw a curve ball at them despite all their talent, beauty, and social media presence. I have known many profoundly depressed climbers, despite their perfect bodies, colorful outerwear, and beer and duct tape bro downs.
I am grateful for your many interviews, especially, your talk with Harvey Wright, Lor Sabourin, and many more. You are funny and kind.
As a licensed psychotherapist and climber, I just wanted to put that out there in hopes to help people learn how to listen, and not necessarily fix or guide.
We all want to be validated, seen, and heard. If we think about depression as a structure, it is not unlike humor, it required the ability to look at a part of ourselves and be self-reflexive. Usually, when people are suicidal, it’s not the self that wants to die, it is the PART, that is suffering that can’t bear the toil any longer. James did it 15 minutes at a time. This is the unsayable part that needs to be heard.-that is literally dying to be seen and validated. It is important to make room for that part.
It was obvious how much your love each other, but I did feel like some of the most interesting and important parts of Jame’s story were still unheard. James thanks for your unflinching honesty. I thought of you during the last year, and thank you Chris for creating a platform for these very important stories.
Hey Y,
Thanks for the kind and thoughtful note. In reference to the “friend” who lost a partner, I actually consciously quickly moved on from that because though it might have seemed anonymous because we didn’t say her name, I knew, and I know a lot of my listeners would know who we were talking about. She might even be listening. So I was a little nervous that sharing more details of her and James’ private relationship felt a little out of turn considering how small the climbing community is. Overall, it was a bit of a hard line to try to have some laughs and talk about dark shit. I appreciate your analysis and hope I can walk the line better next time we’re in this territory. CK
Cunningham’s Law, baby! This is #5 for James.
21, 47, 92, 166, 245
Each is gold.
Man. YOu are right. I forgot about one of those. 5 time champion.
Could have listened to this conversation forever. Great stuff, especially how climbing friend relationships are super deep, but geographically disparate. James – if u ever cruise through SF I’ll treat the gym pass and a $12 grilled cheese.
Thanks, I’ll let him know.
Zappa fan?
Not so much a fan as that I respect his work and genius.